In this After the Chaos bonus episode, Kandice and Angela discuss the insights gained from their conversation with Foster Mobley, Ed.D., focusing on the importance of authenticity, transparency, and honoring in leadership within the healthcare industry. They emphasize the need for leaders to model positive behaviors, assume positive intent, and foster trust among team members to create a collaborative and effective work environment. The discussion highlights the challenges faced in healthcare leadership and emphasizes the importance of genuine connections in improving organizational culture and patient care. Listen to the full Foster Mobley, Ed. D., interview.
Episode Chapter Guide:
00:00 Introduction to Leadership Insights
02:01 Authenticity in Leadership
05:02 The Concept of Honoring in Leadership
09:46 Building Trust and Positive Intent
14:01 The Joy of Authentic Collaboration
Full Transcript
AI-generated transcript. Accuracy may vary; please excuse any transcription errors.
Kandice Garcia, RN
Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here to discuss what we talked about ⁓ in our discussion with Foster Maudele. And ⁓ I mean, isn’t he just a little gem? I know he says this every time, but I feel so grateful to be able to talk to such like inspiring, insightful ⁓ leaders through the healthcare space. I feel like every conversation I’m learning more and more ⁓ about what it takes and the challenges that the real challenges that we’re facing.
Angela Adams, RN
Yeah, I think he brings a fresh look, like even the book that he wrote is called Leadership. Like, I love it. He kind of like a little bit makes fun of this like very serious mentality of like that leadership has to be up here and then everybody else is down here. And I think he kind of brings a realness to leadership. ⁓ One of the first things that he said, and I think, you know,
where do most leaders get it wrong ⁓ is he’s like, get rid of the BS. Like everybody has a super high BS meter right now, get rid of the BS. Like get authentic, be transparent, be human, human connectedness, like all of those things. And when I look back at even leaders in my own life, those were the leaders that like really did big.
things. And it’s because they like literally cut through the noise, they cut through the BS, and they just got right to the meat of the matter. These leaders that I had that were just posturing and you could see like all of the maneuvering that was happening in these meetings and nobody wanted to say the thing and there’s like this big pink elephant in the room. Those were the teams that I felt like we’re always we were just spinning our wheels because everybody was spending their time posturing versus like just getting to the meat of the problem.
Kandice
Now.
Yeah.
Angela
And so I feel like he takes a very startup mentality into these huge
organizations like Deloitte and says, stop posturing, stop with the BS, like get to the meat of the matter, get to the connectedness. And like, that’s one of the points that he made right off the bat that I think a lot of leaders miss out
Kandice
Yeah.
Well, you know that that the what you were saying the posturing and it takes so much time and energy and effort and like emotional capital to have those kind of conversations and to show up like that because everybody is like wondering and trying to read through the lines like what are we actually saying here? Like is this you know because it’s for ⁓
you know, somebody else in the group, are they advocating? Like, what is the alliances behind the scene here that I need to be aware of? And like, when you spend all of your time trying to figure out who is saying what in, you know, in relation to whom, you don’t actually spend time solving the problems. You don’t actually spend time moving together. And problem solving is about aligning, everybody getting in the same boat, moving in the same direction. And if everybody is focused out or in or
in the side conversation, you can’t move in the same direction. I feel like that really spoke to his, ⁓ you know, his point on authenticity. It’s not just the BS, but it’s also recognizing that we all have levels of BS in our own personalities and how we show up. And part of the work is defining that for yourself. What is my true authentic self? How do I show up as myself? And how do I lead?
in a way that’s like true and authentic to who I am.
Angela
Yeah, what was that quote that he said about like, if you haven’t done the work, like, you shouldn’t be a leader, like, you shouldn’t even be there. Like, and, and I feel like so many times, like we get caught in the swirl of our everyday, and it is hard to be intentional about taking time, reflection, looking inside and being like, why am I showing up this way? Or why am I not showing up this way? And I would say most leaders I would say,
Kandice
Yeah.
Angela
over 80 % of leaders, maybe even higher than that. Like they’re just such in a swirl of every day that they’re not being intentional about, intentional, I just made a board. ⁓ They’re not being intentional about like, hey, let me look into me first. And that concept that he said of modeling, like you are the model for how you want, like if you’re a whirlwind of disaster and chaos, guess what?
your team is going to be a whirlwind of disaster and chaos. And like, I constantly have seen that in my own career. Like when the leader is not modeling what they want the team to do, or they’re modeling something that they actually don’t want the team to do, but the team is modeled exactly that activity back to them. And they’re like, why is everything chaotic? And it’s like, cause you are. I think that idea of modeling was really an important concept too.
Kandice
Right.
Bye.
Angela
⁓ Let’s talk about his next book, Honoring. I loved that kind of whole, I think stream of thought that we went down. The last time we talked to him, he didn’t even have that name picked out for his book, but I love it because it’s kind of like, again, he’s pushing the envelope on the ⁓ command and obey mentality that was so rampant for decades in, I think, healthcare and I think some.
healthcare leaders are still in that command leadership. And it’s like, why does nobody wanna do what I want them to do? Well, nobody wants to be commanded to do it. ⁓ And this idea of like honoring and building like trust with the people that you are surrounding yourself with and your team. Wow, how impactful, but then also like, gosh, how do you do that? Like, how do you do that in everyday life?
Kandice
Yeah.
Well, you know, I think that even in healthcare specifically, not just like leadership overall, it is specifically important in healthcare because we have gotten to this point where there is two different pathways for our administrative group at the hospital and then maybe our physician group who are also leaders. You know, we’ve got clinical decision making led by our physician groups and then we have business operations led by our administrative groups.
And we’ve got these like kind of dichotomy of leadership and it’s this constant fight of like who’s in charge here, who’s making the decisions. And in improvement, we always say everybody is on an even playing field, meaning that you come with honor and respect for what that person brings to the process and to the patient care. And everybody’s got a different role in that, but it’s about.
honoring and respecting the level of authority and the level of knowledge that each one of these professionals have. These are not like low level workers. These are highly educated, ⁓ skillful workers who have a ton of responsibility over the safety and care of patients. And if you don’t respect that and you don’t honor that in the conversations that you’re having and the way that you organize yourselves and the responsibilities that you’re just designing and defining, ⁓
You get into this place that we see now where we have all these adversarial relationships because there’s this competition for who’s in charge. And at the end of the day, if we just honored one another for what we brought to the table, our unique skill sets and the level of knowledge and dedication that each one of these people has to their craft, I mean, then we can really work together as a team. Then we can really cultivate the ⁓ expertise and the potential of the entire group.
Angela
Yeah, I think an extension of that honoring that, I’ve kind of brought forward in my own career, I was taught this by one of my mentors is just like every interaction that you go into, just assume positive intent. And I think if leaders and even healthcare executives and the folks that we are leading
Kandice
Ugh, no.
Angela
just came into every interaction assuming positive intent and assuming that like everybody is going to honor each other. And that was the baseline expectation. I think the problem that we have right now in healthcare is that we have deteriorated the trust so much administration and operators and clinicians that like nobody comes into that room assuming positive intent. And that creates such a division
Kandice
Hmm.
No.
Angela
And it’s hard for people to come back to that because that trust has been so deteriorated. So how do you create this idea of honoring when like the trust is completely gone between groups of people? And so I think there’s a rebuilding of trust that has to happen even before honoring can occur again, or we just need leaders that come in fresh.
Kandice
Yeah.
Angela
and are starting with a sense of honor and assuming positive intent and kind of breaking down these silos that we’ve created. It was like that story of the physician friend of mine that was like in the prime of his career as a surgeon and is like, I just want to walk away. I’m so burned out. I can’t deal with administration. I can’t deal with the burden. I can’t deal with insurance telling me how to take care of a patient.
Kandice
Yeah.
Angela
He’s like, I’m so far away from patient care and why I did all of this that like, I just want to leave. And it’s like, think of all that time and investment and training and like the sleepless nights and the residency and like everything that this man went through to get to where he is to be in the prime of his career. And we have pushed him so hard and created such division that like he just wants to walk away from it all.
Kandice
I think so many healthcare workers are feeling that right now. There is a mass exodus. People are looking for other jobs. Even when this is their calling, even when patient care is all they’ve ever done. But to bring it back full circle, I think that, you know, in order to change the culture of an organization, it starts with the leader. It starts with the leaders showing up as our authentic selves, creating true partnerships with the other leaders in the organization to say, no more. We are not adversarial anymore. We are now going to be partners. We’re going to do this together.
and creating a new dynamic at the leadership level will change the way that the rest of the organization functions. So if we can show up being our true authentic selves with good intent, honor those around us, our patients will be the ones who reap the benefits.
Angela
Yeah. Okay, here’s the real real. Have you ever felt honored?
by a leader.
Kandice
Mmm.
Angela
You
Kandice
You know, because that’s the dynamic that we teach and practice within our program, I actually, my partner now, who was my mentor and boss for a long time, Dr. David Larson, as an expert at this type of leadership, ⁓ I feel like he really like walks the walk. And I feel like I have grown in that space. And like we were saying, somebody you’ve got to…
demonstrate, you’ve got to show people what it’s like, you’ve got to be that every day. ⁓ And he has really set the tone for our group to grow and develop over the past decade to this is what we do as a group. And this is what we train our teams that can participate with us to show up authentically and to honor one another. I mean, we get to work with you guys at Inflo Health through the program. And one of the main points is that
our software and our vendors are part of the team and we need to honor them for the expertise that they have and take responsibility for the things that we need to do in order for all of us to work together and that technology to really be integrated and optimized. I think you guys actually do that very well with your clients and showing up in this program.
Angela
Thank you. We do try very hard. think that by nature of being in AI today, like you have to be very transparent about what technology can do and what technology cannot do. People’s BS meters are very high here, especially in healthcare where there’s been big time failures of AI and technologies and they have not helped the clinician. They have hurt the clinician in a way.
And so we try to be very transparent, ⁓ clear, try to honor the fact that these folks are on the front lines taking care of patients. And it is our job to make their lives easier with technology and be a safety net to make sure that the patients are not harmed but helped under their current health care system. like we are very, our client success team, like
Kandice
Now.
Angela
all throughout our org, we are very much in tune to transparency. And it does, it starts from the top. Like I’m very transparent with our team. Like here’s where we are, here’s what we’re trying to achieve, here’s our struggles, here’s our challenges. Let’s come together as a team and drive to the next level of excellence ⁓ for our clients. So I appreciate you saying that. It takes a lot of hard work every single day to maintain that culture.
Kandice
Yeah, and you know,
What we see across the country too, is there are so many people out there who are willing to put their hearts on the line for the work that they do, for their patients, for their staff. We see so many leaders who are willing to commit time, energy, resources to making things better one process at a time. And I just have to tell you, those are some of the most profound, deepest, most fulfilling. ⁓
professional relationships that I have. We all get so much out of doing this work together. I always say quality improvement will change the people as much as the process if you let it. And it is just such a joy to be able to do that, to show up authentically and to be able to create a community of people who are committed to doing that as well. There’s a lot of them in healthcare. I cannot wait to share their stories here.
Angela
Agreed. Should we ⁓ text Foster and tell him we’re going to come out to his fly fishing ranch and learn how to fly fish with him?
Kandice
Yeah, but who’s going to warn the fish? mean, honestly, I fear for them.
Angela
For the guides.
You’re in my story. Like who’s going to warn the guides and the fish? You’re like, yeah, they should. Well, thanks, Candice. This was fun as always. And thanks for your expertise. And I honor you, my friend. OK, good. Thanks. See you guys next time.
Kandice
Hahaha!
I honor you every day. Thanks everyone.
Bye.
